I still get nervous when I interview

Verona Daly, People & Talent Partner

I still get nervous when I interview.

I thought that when I was the one doing the interviewing, I wouldn’t be nervous anymore, that for some magical unknown reason, I’d suddenly be super cool and confident. I guess I assumed that once I had done it enough, it wouldn’t make me nervous anymore.

I do have a couple of theories as to why I felt this way. Maybe it was the theatre kid in me – once I was off book, had my scripted memorised and I stepped on stage, I wasn’t nervous. Maybe mistakenly, I thought that recruitment would be similar to that. I suppose in some ways it is, recruitment is a performance. It’s not quite the same as playing a fictional character, but it’s a performance nonetheless and a performance I’m still nervous for.

Now obviously, I’m not nervous for myself these days, but that doesn’t mean I don’t remember how those nerves felt. I’m a big believer that nerves are good, and we should appreciate them for what they are. Nerves are not a sign of weakness or insecurity; nerves are a sign of passion. Of genuine interest, of a desire to have something go well. It all depends on what you do with those nerves that make or break you.

In order to not break with the nerves, I dance. I’d really like to stress here that I am in no way coordinated, rhythmic or a talented dancer, nor am I claiming to be. What I mean when I say ‘I dance’ is that I dance it out. If you’ve ever seen Grey’s Anatomy, you’ll understand what I’m talking about. Meredith and Christina – when things get tough – they dance it out. I have to say, it works. It works spectacularly well, because for however long you’re dancing it out, your mind is not thinking about what’s to come.

I’m not talking about a perfectly choreographed dance either, I really mean just mean shaking it off, being messy and just moving your body to get that blood flowing, and it’s something you can do anywhere. For my final interview for this very role, I was in work. I couldn’t get the time off, couldn’t book a private room anywhere, so I ended up doing my final interview with my now manager, surrounded by shoe boxes in the corner of a stockroom. I still danced it out, even in that tiny space, sitting in an office chair I’d taken with me. Our Stockroom Manager saw me dance for 4 minutes and 21 seconds to ‘August’ by Taylor Swift, just before I hopped onto a final round interview for a job I really wanted.

Even now, six months into my job, I still dance it out when I get nervous. If I have a candidate moving to a final round interview, if I have a screening call with someone that I’ve been trying to get, I’ll still shake it off, because I still get nervous in these situations. If you thought I was nervous when I was interviewing for my own job, you should’ve seen my first ever screening call. I could feel the nerves in my stomach waiting for the moment I could call my candidate. What did I do? I set aside a few minutes, and I danced around my room. Similarly, to when I was on the other end of the phone, it worked; I was less nervous and felt I gave my candidate a better screening call because of it.

I would really like to stress, my dear reader, that I’m not saying that I got a job because I danced to Taylor Swift just before a final round interview (although, I have managed to work her in to every project I’ve done since). I’m not even attempting to say that I got this job because I was relaxed in the interview and not stressed. It’s not a fool proof method, I’ve used it many times and didn’t get the job I wanted, but I’ve always felt that I’ve given a better interview after it, and felt like a better interviewer because of it.

Being honest, it very well could be a placebo effect of sorts. In my mind though, I was much more relaxed while doing my interview, I was much less nervous than I would have been, and I was able to concentrate more on being in the moment instead of fretting over what I had just said and immediately wishing I could swallow my own words.

No one is confident and cool all of the time. No one is above nerves. No one has the right to take your nerves are use them against you. You should be in control of your own nerves, and embrace them. Use them as motivation, as a lesson, or break them. Maybe for you, it won’t be dancing, it could be meditating, it could be deep breathing exercises, it could be going for a walk. It could be anything in the world that isn’t just sitting still, 5 minutes before an interview, letting your mind wander into what if’s and overly rehearsed answers.

So, to circle back to my original point, I still get nervous when I interview and that’s okay! That’s what separates me from a robot; it’s me, a real person, sitting behind the screen. It makes me flawed and human, it makes me invested into my candidates. I want the candidate I’m talking with to do well. I want them to succeed, I want them to have the perfect interview experience / candidate journey (whether or not that exists is a topic for a different blog) and want them to walk away from our interview thinking that they could be happy here. That they can tell the kind of people we are and the kind of environment we work in, and it’s one they want to join.

The best thing about these nerves? I have the ability to feel this way at Ward, to be emotional, to be nervous, to advocate for my candidates, ask ridiculous questions (like how to pronounce SIEM!) and dance it out, and never once feel judged or look down upon. It’s scary to do an interview, from both sides of the interview table, so do what you need to make it more comfortable for you.

Challenge Your Mindset

Ciara Fitzgerald – Head of Legal, Ward Solutions

When I was in primary and secondary school, I struggled with maths. I was told consistently by grown-ups in my family that this was to be expected; my whole family struggled with maths. I listened, believed this and always saw spending time on anything mathematical as a waste of energy. I steered clear of any optional subjects that involved figures while in education. I figured I just did not have the aptitude for it. It was genetic. How could I possibly fight genetics?! So I became a barrister and did my absolute best to avoid anything that required “an ability” for maths in my professional life.

In 2019/2020, I undertook a business and innovation course (a new departure for me!) and as part of the reading, we were advised to read Mindset: The Psychology of Success by Dr. Carol S. Dweck. I had never heard of the book or of the author but I am not exaggerating when I say the content of that book entirely changed my perception of my own ability and capacity and that of everyone around me. For those who have not read this book, very briefly, Dweck argues that people have, broadly, one of two mindsets – a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. Those with a fixed mindset believe that your traits and abilities are fixed and you are either born smart or talented (generally or in relation to a specific area) or not. People have no capacity to change their abilities. Those with a growth mindset, however, believe that ability is not static and can be improved with effort, through failure and learning.

Dweck suggested that fixed and growth mindsets spanned a spectrum and most people would not fall entirely within either camp across every facet of his/her life. As I listened to this book however, I realised that with respect to my professional abilities and educational abilities, I very much had a fixed mindset. I believed I was good at certain things but would not and could not succeed at other things. Again, how could I fight genetics?! When I scratched the surface of that persistent truth however, I realised I had not even thought to generate a counter argument – something lawyers should be able to do in their sleep! Fair enough, I did not like maths, but that was not the same as having no ability. In addition, when I looked at my siblings I realised that two of them run successful businesses (something that indicates to me they must be good with figures) and another is actually studying for a financial qualification. Really interestingly, Dweck suggested that failure is something that those with a fixed mindset fear and I have always hated to fail – so much so that I would just not take on challenges that I did not think I could succeed in (Ward’s Head of People and Talent wrote a fantastic piece about learning to fail through Olympic weightlifting earlier in this series!). This was certainly more pronounced during my adolescence and early twenties but I won’t deny it, I still hate to fail at something!

Since finishing the book and in both my personal and professional life, I have consciously made an effort to challenge my inclination towards a fixed mindset. I have two young daughters, one of whom recently started school, and I find myself trying to ensure that I never tell her she is has no talent (or conversely, she has bundles of talent) for any of her subjects. Rather, I try and encourage her for just trying, for failing and trying again and for putting effort in.

This is more difficult to do for myself and at work! I am the sole legal counsel in an information and cyber security company and therefore, I can be a bit a sea sometimes when some of my more technical colleagues start talking! Instead of passively listening now however and assuming that I cannot and will not ever understand what they are talking about because “I’m just not technical”, I ask them to explain or I take notes and later look up terms that were used during meetings and conversations. As a result, I have learned a huge amount (relatively speaking) about the technical sides of this business that do not necessarily impact on my specific legal function. In an earlier blog by my colleague, Alicja Quinn, she advocated for people to embrace change and become a “change champion” and I suppose, this is my quiet way of doing just that.

So what is my point? First of all, if you haven’t come across Dr. Dweck’s book, I would highly recommend it! If nothing else, it is a really interesting read. Secondly, as my growth-minded colleagues suggest, embrace failure and change in both your personal and professional life. Easier said than done perhaps, but try small changes at first. Finally, allow yourself to believe that you can be something different than what you are today or have been in the past with a little bit of effort, hard work and trial and error.